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Vaclav Klaus speaks with The Prague Post

English Pages, 13. 5. 2002

About the June election, defending Czech interests, criticizing the European Union, tangling with President Vaclav Havel, and other topics.

The Prague Post: How has being in opposition the last four years changed you and the ODS?

Vaclav Klaus: I think it&s in some respects healthy for anyone to be in a position that gives a different perspective. And I think my colleagues have learned a lot in this time. I&m not sure it&s been such a positive result for the country, but that&s another story.

TPP: What is your message to voters in this election?

Klaus: We started with an election program based on a series of topics, which was a different approach than all other political parties. And we started early, in January. It was an evolutionary way of both writing and presenting the election program and if I understand correctly it has been more or less considered a positive idea. We didn&t want to just accept infighting among political parties. ... We have been preparing something for the last two weeks for the "hot" campaign era, which would address more the -- I wouldn&t say personal, but emotional, side of the thinking of the electorate. But we&ll keep that to ourselves for now.

TPP: One of your campaign topics, "defending Czech national interests," has generated controversy, with some of your opponents saying the ODS is running an isolationist or a nationalist campaign. How do you respond to that?

Klaus: This is a crazy accusation from our political rivals. I almost don&t want to argue with them, because arguing against it means half-accepting the criticism. But I must say that defending national interests is something that has been done by all countries in the history of mankind. It&s their obligation to do it and there&s no connection whatsoever with nationalism. ... It was not our ambition to open such a debate. I spent 12 years living in a very delicate and fragile equilibrium in Central Europe and have been trying in all my roles to do something positive in this respect. When I signed the Czech-German declaration with [former German Chancellor] Helmut Kohl five years ago, we tried to turn the attention from the past to the future, and we were very delicately balancing words in that declaration.

I&m very sorry that such a delicate and fragile balance has been disturbed, but it was definitely not by us and definitely not by anyone in the Czech Republic -- it was disturbed on the other side of the border. Our political opponents in the Czech Republic sometimes try to pretend that the voices coming from Germany and Austria [calling for the abolition of the Benes Decrees] are irrelevant, marginal voices, which is total nonsense. I have been talking with leading politicians in those countries in the last year and I must say that, visiting Vienna, you are spending the whole time discussing the same issue, and I&m not talking about Temelin.

TPP: Do you think your party&s position on the European Union is misunderstood?

Klaus: Our critics, our opponents, pretend not to understand that we talk about two things with respect to the EU. They pretend that it&s only one issue. They try to say that our position is unstable, moving, changing according to the circumstances, according to the audience and according to the atmosphere. This is almost offensive to me, because my ideas, my views, have been the same for years, for a decade. ... As a small, Continental, Central European country, we have no other chance than to participate in the European integration process -- we have no other countries geographically to join with, not America, not Asia, not Africa -- we cannot move the country. We cannot pretend that we will join the United States of America. But about the form and direction of the European integration process, I have, and I am not alone, hundreds and thousands of criticisms, very strong criticisms. But we can be very much against the current "Europism," as I call it, and in favor of entering the EU.

TPP: Have the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 and their aftermath changed your views on foreign policy?

Klaus: No. Only those who had the wrong views on foreign policy in the past had reason to change them -- there is no reason for me. I think that those who thought, like Francis Fukuyama, that there had been the end of history, the end of ideology and the end of everything else, they probably were shocked and surprised. Not me.

TPP: Has the U.S. been treating its European allies properly in the fight against terrorism?

Klaus: I don&t have any problems with it and I don&t agree with the criticism coming from Western Europe, with such anti-Americanism.

TPP: Is there a world politician right now that you admire?

Klaus: If you play tennis, do you have to admire [Pete] Sampras, or [Andy] Roddick, or [Lleyton] Hewitt, or [Andre] Agassi, or [Albert] Costa, or is it sufficient to admire the top tennis coach in any tennis club in the world? The second answer is obviously sufficient for improving your tennis playing, so I don&t want to suggest any names. But yesterday, coincidentally, I got a book from Margaret Thatcher [the recently published Statecraft] and here&s something interesting. There is a collection of photos in this book with two or three pictures of her with President Ronald Reagan, one with President George Bush Sr., one with [Mikhail] Gorbachev, three with her getting honorary degrees, and one with Vaclav Klaus.

TPP: You seem to elicit strong reactions from people; they either love you or hate you. Why do you think that is?

Klaus: Because I have firm, very strong and clear views. You can almost say it is enough that I have views at all. For a politician to be loved by everyone, it is better to have no views. I see many politicians who have no views at all, and they don&t anger anyone.

TPP: Whom do you see as the best government coalition partner for the ODS after the election?

Klaus: We&ve always said that it would be much better to be with a coalition partner who has a similar ideological program, but we will see whether such a coalition will be possible or not.

TPP: Are you interested in eventually becoming president?

Klaus: In our parliamentary system, the crucial position for influencing the future of the country is the prime minister. The parliamentary elections will decide the future, will decide who is the next prime minister, and my ambitions are strictly limited to this.

TPP: President Vaclav Havel is retiring next year. What do you think of his performance?

Klaus: I prefer not to make any comments on this; we have many differences and disagreements on many issues. I have on my desk a draft of a letter to him, which I&m not sure I will send. [Editor&s note: Klaus sent the letter.] Last week he sent me a veto on a bill concerning Czech public radio. This is his right and I have no problem with it. But the issue is his arguments, which are relevant for expressing the differences in our views. He said that the vote on the Czech Radio Council and the Czech Radio code should not be approved by the Parliament because the Parliament is the representative of the political parties. He would like it to be approved by an institution that represents citizens. This is almost a Freudian slip of the tongue on his part. So I&m thinking about sending him a letter arguing that such an interpretation goes against the text and the spirit of the constitution of this country. For me, that&s a good example.

TPP: Would you do anything differently from the last time if you were re-elected prime minister?

Klaus: That is a question I am not able to answer. You make thousands of decisions as prime minister and not all are considered the best, but talking about basic issues, I don&t think I would do anything differently.

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Klaus: the man to beat in June

By Michael Mainville

STAFF WRITER

It&s a sunny spring day and Civic Democratic Party (ODS) leader Vaclav Klaus is addressing a 200-strong crowd in Prague&s Jungmannovo namesti.

He&s only one of a half-dozen speakers, but Klaus is clearly the star attraction. Businessmen on their lunch breaks and pensioners eating complimentary sandwiches welcome him with resounding applause.

Speaking in a soft, avuncular voice, Klaus tells his audience that he will lower taxes and defend Czech national interests if an ODS victory in June 14-15 national elections returns him to the job of prime minister. 

As he leaves the stage, Klaus is surrounded by well-wishers and autograph seekers. He moves easily through the crowd, shaking hands and smiling widely.

Asked why she trekked downtown for the rally, a 66-year-old woman gives only one reason: "I came here to see Vaclav Klaus."

Klaus& charisma is legendary. Observers say he has the enviable ability to transform himself to fit the needs of his audience -- one day a dignified statesman addressing international leaders, the next a firebrand stirring up crowds on the campaign trail.

"Vaclav Klaus is a holy icon," said Zdenek Zboril of Prague&s Institute for Political Analysis. "Klaus has a gift. He knows how to appeal to the public on all levels."

For many of his supporters, Klaus, prime minister from 1992 to 1997, is one of the few natural leaders this country has produced since the 1989 revolution toppled the communist regime.

"He&s not only the leader of our party, he is its symbol and the last of the three main politicians of the last decade: Vaclav Havel, Milos Zeman and Vaclav Klaus," ODS Deputy Chairman Ivan Langer, 35, said.

With Prime Minister Zeman of the Social Democratic Party (CSSD) retiring and Havel&s term as president due to end next year, 60-year-old Klaus is gearing up for a return to power, with the ODS again serving as his vehicle.

A former dissident economist, Klaus founded the ODS in 1991 and has remained its chairman ever since. He become prime minister of of the Czech lands in 1992 and, after the breakup of Czechoslovakia, guided the Czech Republic through the early years of its transformation into a democratic state with a free-market economy.

Klaus and the ODS were dealt a seemingly heavy blow in 1997, when his governing coalition collapsed in disgrace over a party-financing scandal. The scandal nearly undid the ODS as some top members quit. They would eventually form a rival party, the Freedom Union (US), now a member of a two-party center-right group known as the Coalition.

But through sheer force of personality and political acumen, Klaus has revived his political career and his party.

The ODS finished a surprising second in the 1998 elections, only 4 percentage points behind Zeman&s CSSD. Then Klaus pulled off a political coup. When Zeman, whose party did not win a majority in Parliament, proved unable to form a governing coalition, Klaus made him an offer: The ODS would tolerate a CSSD Cabinet in exchange for policy concessions and a leading role in Parliament.

The deal became known as the "opposition agreement" and has survived for four years. Initially, voters found the agreement confusing. Some opponents even called it immoral. In 1999, anger over the arrangement boiled over in the "Thank You, Now Leave" movement, which saw 50,000 protesters gather in Wenceslas Square to demand the government&s resignation.

But hostility toward the agreement has faded, thanks largely to stable government, economic growth and increasing wages and living standards.

"It was difficult for people because it was something new and unexpected, but I think they accepted that it was a product of rationalism and as a pragmatic decision," Langer said.

And by signing the agreement, observers say, Klaus may have obtained the means to win the June election. The party is now free to take credit for the successes of the last four years while blaming any failures on the CSSD.

"Back in 1998, Zeman made a deal with the devil and nobody has ever profited from such a deal," political scientist Bohumil Dolezal said.

Or, as Zboril put it: "A success has many fathers; failure has but one."

To take advantage of this position, the ODS has come out strong and early in this year&s election campaign.

It started in January with the release of a two-page position paper outlining the party&s stand on European Union membership. In the weeks since, the ODS has released six more papers dealing with such issues as taxes, pensions and Army reform. More are to come, including one on law and order to be released May 13.

In separate interviews, ODS deputy chairmen Langer, Petr Necas and Jan Zahradil said the party&s strategy is to set the agenda for the campaign with timely releases of position papers that take clear stands.

"We would like our political program to dominate the process," Necas, 37, said.

The party&s program has changed little since the ODS ran the country in the 1990s. Klaus and his party colleagues, devotees of the new conservatism of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, have crafted a platform based on the principles of an unfettered economy, small government and the defense of national interests.

The party has proposed significantly reducing taxes by introducing a 15 percent flat rate and by abolishing the capital-gains tax. It also wants a drastic reduction in bureaucracy -- a plan Langer called "a diet for the state" -- that calls for the elimination of one-third of all state regulations and four or five of the government&s 14 ministries. The party would introduce a two-tiered pension plan replacing the current pay-as-you-go system. This would decrease state pension contributions and payments while encouraging taxpayers to save for retirement.

Critics of these ideas, particularly in the CSSD, say they are cold-hearted measures that benefit Klaus& traditional supporters -- well-educated, middle- and upper-class city dwellers -- at the expense of those less well-off.

But the most controversial of the ODS& position papers has nothing to do with taxes or the economy. The paper is called "The ODS votes for Czech national interests," and it has led some observers and political opponents to attach populist and nationalist labels to Klaus and his party.

The document was released as the international controversy surrounding the Benes Decrees peaked. The decrees, signed in 1945 by then-Czechoslovak President Edvard Benes, stripped 2.5 million Sudeten Germans and nearly 30,000 ethnic Hungarians of their land and citizenship. Some politicians in Germany, Austria and Hungary have called on the Czech Republic to abolish the decrees before it joins the EU.

Czech politicians of all stripes have said the decrees are untouchable, but the ODS has made a crusade of defending them from what it calls "pressure to change the postwar settlement of Europe ... at the expense of the Czech Republic." The party wants assurances that a guarantee protecting the decrees be included in the country&s entry treaty with the EU.

But ODS leaders said that their position has nothing to do with nationalism and that opponents have foisted the label on them as a scare tactic.

"Defending national interests is not nationalism," Necas said. "We hear Western politicians using the words national interests practically every day in dealing with foreign and defense policy."

Zahradil, 39, said the ODS is using the term nation in a political sense, not an ethnic one.

"Nationalism is marked by xenophobia, by hostility to other nations," he said. "That is not our approach."

The party&s position on EU membership has also been assailed, with opponents saying a vote for the ODS would delay or even prevent entry. The next government is expected to lead the country into the EU in 2004.

But Zahradil, author of the party&s "Manifesto on Czech Euro-Realism," said the ODS has been unfairly depicted as anti-EU. He said the party simply doesn&t want the EU dictating the terms of membership to Czech citizens.

"We cannot live outside the EU in the long term," he said, "but we have to look at the EU realistically."

The ODS says it will not support EU membership unless the Czech Republic has a veto right on key issues of national sovereignty in the Council of Europe and unless it can maintain separate tax, social, pension and health policies.

So far, the ODS& campaign seems to be working. The party&s level of support has increased steadily since January and it now leads in most public opinion polls. The latest poll by TNS Factum showed that 31.5 percent of voters would choose the ODS, 5.5 points ahead of the second-place CSSD.

Party leaders said that they have two options for organizing a governing coalition after the election and that neither is perfect. The ODS could form a government with the CSSD that would have a strong majority in Parliament but remain divided on fundamental issues. Or it could join with the center-right Coalition, which would entail fewer policy concessions but make for a weaker government.

They agreed, though, that the next government will need clout if it is to address such issues as pension reform, the rising state debt and EU entry, which may require unpopular measures.

"What the country needs now is a strong majority government," Zahradil said. "We have been living in a state of minority government for too long and it&s time for that to change."

Still, with more than a month to go before the election, ODS leaders aren&t getting ready to move into government offices yet. "I don&t believe in any polls, even when they are optimistic for the ODS," Necas said. "I believe in only one public-opinion poll: election day."

-- Petr Kaspar contributed to this report.

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THE PLATFORM

The ODS is gradually publishing its election platform, releasing a new position paper every few weeks. Seven have been published so far, with one on law and order set for release May 13.

The ODS has so far promised to:

*        Create a 15 percent flat rate for all taxpayers, abolish the capital- gains tax and create a single value-added tax (VAT) rate of 15 percent.

*         Abolish military conscription by creating a professional, well-trained and smaller army. It would also reduce the number of civilian employees of the military and oppose the creation of a European military force.

*         Replace the current pay-as-you-go pension plan with a two-tiered system that would have the government providing only subsistence-level pensions while encouraging taxpayers to save on their own for retirement.

*         Defend Czech national interests by insisting that the postwar settlement in Europe remain unchanged and that the Benes Decrees be protected in a European Union entry treaty.

*         Support EU membership, but insist on a Czech veto right on issues of national sovereignty and the maintenance of separate tax, social, pension and health policies.

*         Reduce bureaucracy by eliminating up to a third of the country&s 100,000 regulations and by abolishing four or five of the government&s 14 ministries.

*         Protect the environment, but not at the expense of the free market.

The Prague Post, Michael Mainville, 8. 5. 2002